Afshin Ghotbi Interview Part 2 | Part
1 | Part 3
John Duerden talks to Afshin Ghotbi, in his second spell as an
assistant coach with South Korea's national team
Afshin Ghotbi is an assistant coach of the South Korean national
team and was part of the coaching staff under Guus Hiddink in the
18 months leading up to the 2002 World Cup.
A forward-thinking 42-year-old, his talents have been in demand
around the world but he chose to return to East Asia.
How was the World Cup for you and South Korea?
We set a goal of four or five points which we thought was achievable.
After the Togo game we were very happy with three points. There
are things we could have done better in the first half but in the
second half we made some changes that allowed us to take advantage
and score the goals necessary.
With France - I believed before the game that it was one
of the best teams in the world that we were facing. For us to get
one point from that game was a great achievement. Even though many
people in the world media thought the French wouldn't achieve
much, I thought that they had some of the best players in the world
- champions of great teams in the most important leagues in
the world.
The back four were all champions in different countries. The midfield
had Makelele and Vieira who are two of the best holding midfielders
in the world with Zidane as one of the greatest playmakers in the
world with Henry one of the best strikers ever. When you play a
team like that and get one point out of it then it is fantastic.
Again, we didn't start well but in the second half we were
very energetic and created a lot of problems for them. We played
a little bit higher and more direct.
The goal we scored came out of a fantastic build-up. It came out
of the right midfield to Ahn Jung-hwan who played it wide to Seol
who gave the perfect cross behind the backline and Jae-jin did really
well.
We were fortunate to get a draw out of that game but we did so
we were sitting in a very good position, four points from two games.
I think Switzerland had some breaks in their games. Against France,
they should have lost that game. They could have lost against Togo
as there were two penalties that were not called and in the 88th
minute they scored whoch gave them an advantage in the last game
as they only needed a draw.
In the final game- it is a game you need to get the breaks and
take your chances. We needed to execute some of the things we had
talked about in the build-up. The Swiss were very good in wide positions
- we knew that - we had to stop them and their crosses
from wide positions. We had to be organized from dead balls but
we conceded a goal from that.
In my opinion, their second goal was offside and that really broke
our back. In a game like that you need balls to bounce your way
and they didn't and you need calls to go your way. But we
lost to a good team.
We showed ourselves well, getting four points from a very difficult
group and being the best third-placed team.
When you look at it objectively and take all your emotions out
of it, we showed well. But you can't go to a World Cup into
a tough group as an Asian team and concede a goal in each first
half of the three games and expect to get out of the group. That
took a lot of energy from us and we had to chase the game.
The same things that have haunted Korean and Asian teams historically
haunted us. The final pass was poor, we needed too many chances
to score goals, the backline has to play better football and we
were not capable of it. Those things are the gap between Asia and
the rest of the world.
If you look at Japan, Korea and Iran, the three better teams of
Asia going into the World Cup, we all face the same challenge.
Firstly, our domestic leagues are below the top standard so our
players domestically aren't getting week-to-week the games,
training and competition that they need to develop.
Secondly, our foreign players that go abroad are not starting and
getting playing time for European teams. They are not coming into
the national team match-fit.
Thirdly, we have a tendency to make huge stars of our players
too quickly. A young player who shows very well immediately becomes
a top star. Commercially, there are a lot of demands, attention
and expectations. These players have a difficult time meeting those
expectations.
Are you talking about Park Chu-young?
I don't want to name names, I am talking in general whether
it is Karimi in Iran or Nakata in Japan or some of our players.
First and foremost to close the gap between Asia and the rest
of the world, we have to improve our domestic leagues. The media
has to make a better job of not making a big deal out of one performance
or competition when a player is 18 or 19 years old and calling him
the next Messiah, Pele or Maradona.
National team and club coaches have to do a better job of acknowledging
future talent. They are not stars yet, you have to perform in the
long-term at club level year after year.
That is the best lesson we can take from the World Cup. Given
the circumstances, Mr.Advocaat, the coaching staff and the players
did their best. It was a tough group. Of course, we can play better.
Now is the time to move forward - a new beginning.
I know you prefer to focus on the future rather than the
World Cup but many people in Korea felt that the national team was
too defensive against Togo especially towards the end when it was
2-1 against ten men. This culminated in a last-minute free-kick
when the shot wasn't taken and the ball passed back. In the
end, goal difference was important. What would you say to that?
Togo was dangerous from the beginning to the end in attack. They
gave us problems with few players in attack with individual qualities
and pace. The goal they scored came out of nothing -two touches
and it's in the back of the net.
Even after we scored, they gave us problems with ten players.
The priorities of the team at that time must be- must be - to get
three points.
One of the things we always talk about as coaches is 'how
do you manage a game?' Game Management or Gamesmanship, we
call it, is so important. Knowing when to kill a game, knowing when
to be direct and go for goals.
At that time with a score of 2-1 for Korea, the priority had to
be to keep organized behind the ball, not to commit too many players
forward and keep the ball - take your opportunities if they
come but if they don't come, don't take unnecessary
risks and give chances to the opponent.
All of us, if we had to do it again, we would do the same thing..
We had to get three points from that game. Korea had never won a
game in a World Cup abroad. Psychologically, those three points
were so important. It was a very important win for us, not just
for that World Cup, but for the next World Cups to come.
You talked about the team always being behind at half-time.
Why were the first-half performances worse than the second-half
in all three games?
The Togo game had a lot to do with nerves.
The players seemed nervous, they had unbelievable stress and pressure
- 50 million people expected the win and everyone said it
was the game we had to win.
The French game had a lot to do with the quality of the French.
They played very high, they pressured us and were direct.
The Swiss game wasn't a poor first half, it was an OK first
half. We created the first chance from Lee Chun-soo. The goal came
from a dead-ball - we should never have given that free-kick
away. There was no reason to give a free-kick especially knowing
how dangerous they are from free-kicks.
That is something that comes from tactical experience. We have
to be more clever - just running with players in defence rather
than being over-aggressive and giving away fouls. Just force people
away from goal, force people back so we can stay organized.
As you know that there is a tendency in Korean football, domestic,
university and national team, the players often give away fouls
in dangerous positions. It creates problems in international football
especially against teams like Switzerland who are good in the air
and have good service from wide positions.
Was Korea too defensive with the formations and tactics?
I was in every meeting and we never said to the players 'OK,
we're going to play defensive". We all knew that Korea
is a better team when we play high and force opponents to play in
midfield under pressure. We all agreed that Korea is a better team
when we go direct and go for second balls in the final third. We
all agreed that Korea is not the kind of team that can build out
of the back, through the midfield and after 20 passes create a goalscoring
possibility.
That was in 2006, in the future, we want to build a more versatile
and more continental football team.
We never went into a game ready to be defensive. The tactical
plan was to get numbers behind the ball, stay compact, close things
in midfield, we don't give teams space and when we win the
ball, we try to get forward as soon as we can. I don't think
Mr. Advocaat is a defensive coach.
Is there anything you would do differently if you had a
chance?
I'd like to have come earlier and have more than eight months.
That is why now is so exciting because we have time to build a team
ready for 2010.
At what point did you decide to come back and why did you
come back to Korea?
I've said before that Korean players for us - any coach,
especially teacher-coaches - are ideal players. They want
to learn, they are hard-working, they are passionate, Korean people
love the national team and their support for the national team is
incredible. The KFA has ambitions to build the national team.
There are multiple reasons and the chance to continue working
with Pim was also important and Pim being the head coach was for
me a wonderful opportunity.
What's the most important thing to improve if the national
team is to move forward?
I think the most important thing is we need to identify players
who have a football brain and find a way to combine the fighting
spirit of Korean players, the physical qualities, the pace, the
energy with more of a football brain.
We are looking for players who can make quick decisions, solve
problems. Specifically, we have to find defenders who can play football.
Central defenders are now becoming the ball-spreaders of the game
and the wide players are going into space and getting behind defenders.
We need wide players and midfielders that can deliver final passes
that have an eye so they know the right moment to play penetrating
balls, the right moment to run behind the defence and strikers that
can finish.
Korean players have been trained at K-League and university level.
There is a lot of technical training without any technical purpose,
a lot of physical training without any thinking of how it relates
to a match and they play games like five-against-two without any
technical direction.
We think that we have to influence our players to start thinking
differently with a view to taking less touches to find another player,
to have the qualities to change the point of attack, play short
balls and all the tactical things that are necessary in international
football.
We have many players in Korea that play between midfield and attack
- they are not really strikers, not really midfielders -
they run circles right and left, play in and out but they are not
going anywhere. So we have to start to identify younger players
that can do the simple things very well.
If we could talk to the K-League Coaches - what would you
say to them?
One of the things Pim and I have talked about is to create a better
relationship with the K-League coaches. We think that the K-League
is so important. The national team success and the K-League success
are directly related.
In the past it seemed -maybe this is the wrong phrase -
but it seemed like we were on different islands. We need to come
together and understand that we are partners. We want Korean football
to go to the top.
Who are we to say to anybody 'you need to train your team
this way'? But we hope they notice the international trends
around the world and we hope they notice the demands of modern football.
What were your thoughts on the Taiwan game?
We didn't have any European-based players, we were missing
one of the best Korean goalkeepers ever and Cho Jae-jin who had
great World Cup, I think the result was a good result.
We had a great camp going into the game. We achieved a lot and
not only just seeing young players. I will give you some example
- we would make small meetings of 5-10 minutes before each
training session to explain to the players what we wanted to achieve,
what every exercise was designed to do. We want them to start thinking,
not to turn up for training, do the exercises without knowing the
reason why.
We created a lot of small group meetings, we used images,used
videos and other things to show them, explain to them what we wanted.
We made a lot of training that was specific to each player and the
task that they had.
During the game, we were very organized from beginning to end.
We created enough chances to score six or seven goals and we gave
no real chances away. The pitch was very poor and the atmosphere
was difficult - we got three goals and three points and no
serious injuries.
Of course, we should have scored more. We should have been more
aggressive in going forward but we will talk to the players about
that in the future.
Pim initially called up many young players but the squad
and team for Taiwan - a weak team - was full of experienced players.
Why was this?
We brought the young players in, hoping to get to see them and get
to know them. It's different when you see them in a match,
we can see them twice a day in training. Anyway, we realized that
there was a gap between the players that had been with us before
and the ones that hadn't.
They were more tactical, more clever, they understand a little
bit more of what we want. No national team coach is in a position
to go into a match - not a friendly -a match that counts,
an important away match, an important game for Korean football.
You can't take those kinds of risks with players who don't
have the experience to get the result for you.
There is plenty of time for us, slowly, step-by-step to give the
right players a chance. Bringing players like Shin Young-rok into
camp is a bold decision because we feel that he has the talent to
be a good international football player so we saw him, we know where
he's at, he knows that we are interested in him. He has to
star for his club first before he really gets a chance to play for
the national team.
Is there any chance of Korea following the example of the
new Japan coach, Ivica Osim, who won't call upon his European-based
players for next month's qualifiers?
At this moment, the most important thing for us is to qualify for
the Asian Cup. We have decided that we have plenty of time after
we qualify to give a lot of young players the opportunity to play
in friendlies. At this moment, we have to bring the best players
available for the national team because the Iran match is a very
important match. What Japan does is their own business, we are not
making decisions based on trends but on what is right for our team.
You have mentioned that the K-League needs to improve, how
would you start such a process?
It has to improve and not just on the football side. We all know
that the fans in the stadium makes a lot of difference. It gives
energy to the players and gives them motivation to do their best.
It creates an atmosphere and games become more interesting and exciting.
The marketing definitely has to improve. We all have our ideas,
I know you do. The K-League can learn a lot from Major League Soccer.
On the football side, we have to bring better foreign players
into the league. A foreign player that comes to any league has to
be by far better than the domestic players and they have to bring
a professional mentality to make other players around them better.
I urge the coaches to really look closely at the foreign players
you buy.
We see many situations when good young Korean players aren't
getting a chance to play because of foreign players playing in that
position. Clubs have to look at the bigger picture. Some teams have
45 players but only 11-14 play regularly. Some of those 19, 20,
21 year olds have the talent to play for the national team.
On the practical side, too many teams play defensively, too many
of them play -and I don't want to offend anybody -noodle
football. There's running everywhere, there's a lot
of energy, a lot of fight but very little organisation. Sometimes
it's difficult to know who is playing where.
The K-League teams need to look at trends in international football
- the ways of playing and the ways of training around the
world. Shorter training, more quality -more tactical, less running,
running, running. We need football players, we don't need
just athletes.
A lot of modern trends are short training that always includes
the ball and making decisions, training in small spaces, training
with direction, things that can become habits for players to take
into a game and become better football players.
These are individual choices for each coach to make. At the end
of the day, they are judged on results. For someone from the outside
to tell someone from the inside how to coach is probably not appropriate
but we think that the games need to be more interesting for the
fans. There needs to be more goals, more attacking football, more
players that are playing football rather than just kicking the ball
and rushing and sweating.
Which team will win the K-League?
It's difficult to say. In the first round we saw that Seongnam
have the most organized team in the league, they have the players
and the talent in almost all positions to get the results.
Suwon have made some moves that, on paper, make them a good team.
FC Seoul should get a psychological edge and confidence from winning
the Hauzen Cup.
At the end of the day this is a four-team league in terms of quality
- Ulsan, Seoul, Suwon and Seongnam. Four teams that have the
qualities to win it.
You can say the same about most leagues these days -
certainly England.
Yes, a lot of it comes down to how much money they have and which
players they can buy.
There's a lot that can be done to improve the league but
it can't be done overnight and it starts with the co-operation
of everybody involved. We need the Korean national team fans to
go and support the national team players at their clubs. We need
their support.
Why do you think that doesn't happen?
After 2002, the league had a great opportunity. It fell short in
providing the quality. When a real football fan has access to cable
TV and the best football around the world, maybe he is less willing
to drive his car for an hour to watch a game that is less appealing.
One trend around the world is that when you have team owned by
corporations and the name of the corporation is in the team, it's
difficult to build community support. The move fro LG to FC Seoul
and teams like Daegu and Daejeon becoming citizen teams is the right
step.
Winning is what brings fans and quality is what brings fans and
of course marketing helps. If I had a team in this league, I would
take some of the money from buying expensive foreign players and
spend it on marketing.
There have been lots of stories about Ahn Jung-hwan's
possible transfer. What advice would you give him from a national
team perspective?
Advice has been given already that he needs to go to a club where
he will play. It's very difficult for a player sitting on
the bench to be called to the national team. Even if he has to play
in a club that isn't at the top, or is not getting top dollars.
It applies to all players, if they want to play for the national
team, they have to play for their clubs.
There's a Korean saying "better to be the head
of a snake than a tail of a dragon".
That's a good saying. I'll use that next time!
You should say it in Korean.
I am learning Korean!
Is there anything else you'd like to say?
I'd like to talk about how we start closing the gap between
Europe and us. One is to create a bigger pool, create more competition
for national team players. Perhaps identifying different kinds of
players from the past - those with football brains.Giving
players something to thing about when they go back to their clubs
-almost homework - things they can start using daily
in their training.
Learning is a long-term process of conditioning, seeing, experiencing
and even failing. Already some of the players who leave the training
camp are going back to their clubs and sharing what they have learned
with other players.
It's a small country - united, hard-working- ambitious
- we have all the qualities we need. We have everything here, some
of the best stadiums in the world, some of the best athletes in
the world. Now we need the right leadership, which I think we have.
The objectives are simple: Be number one in Asia by 2007, try
to reach the last six or eight in the Olympics and then be in a
position to go to the second round of the next World Cup.
Will you still be here?
It depends on the results and if our bosses are happy. We are happy
to be here and excited about the challenge.
Now Pim is the coach, how has your position changed?
Before Pim was the second man, I was the third and Bo was the liason
between us and the players and that really helped. Now Pim is the
head coach, I feel like I am next in line and Bo's responsibility
has also grown.
The good part of it is we represent four continents with our own
qualities. That is unique. Hopefully that will help Korean football.
We are all very good friends. I have known Pim for over 12 years-
we have worked at two different World Cups together. Pim and I have
known Bo for five years. I helped Bo go to America and the MLS.
I told him to learn English and experience something else.
I worked with the goalkeeping coach at Suwon for two years. Some
of the hardest times of my coaching life, I shared with him.
Every member has a long history in Korea and understands Korea.
That wasn't the case in 2006 because Mr Advocaat had no experience
here, 2002 Hiddink, Pim and I had no experience.
If I could choose any coaching staff in the world, I would still
choose the four we have. That's the biggest compliment I can
give.
Perhaps you need an Englishman ...
(Laughs)
Career
2004 - 2005 - Los Angeles Galaxy (MLS) - Assistant
Coach
2002 - 2004 - Samsung Bluewings (K-League, Korea)-
Assistant Coach
2001 - 2002 - Korea National Team & 2002 World Cup (4th
place) - Analyst Coach
1998 - 2001 - Technical Consultant - Clients included
Ajax (Netherlands), LA Galaxy (USA), Omiya Ardija (Japan), KFA (Korea),
Chinese Football Association
1997 - 1998 - USA National Team & 1998 World Cup
- Technical Staff / Chief Scout
1988 - 2001 - American Global Soccer School -
Head Coach and Technical Director
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